Getting Better
By The Cascade
How do you identify?
Mr. Hollands: I'm gay.
Mr. Fontaine: Gay.
What year did you graduate high school in?
Mr. Hollands: 1982.
Mr. Fontaine: 1984.
Where you out in high school?
Mr. Hollands: No, not at all. I knew I had certain feelings, but I didn't self-identify as gay at the time.
Mr. Fontaine: I knew that I was gay by 7th grade... I just kept it hidden all through junior high and high school.
Tell us a little about coming out:
Mr. Hollands: I came out... my freshman year of college. I told my best friend, a woman who lived in the same dorm as me. Then I told a couple of my friends freshman year, and by sophomore year was pretty out. I told my family—my brothers and my parents—the beginning of my junior year of college.
Mr. Fontaine: I came out in college, at UW. I was too scared to come out...in high school, because that would have meant...getting beaten up on a daily basis. But then by my senior year I was ready to go crazy, so I started coming out."
What was the atmosphere in school like surrounding homosexuality?
Mr. Hollands: Well, there were no GSAs. I didn't know a single other person who was gay. It was not...talked about, really. I did experience some...verbal bullying from other students who expected I might be gay. So it was not a very tolerant environment.
Mr. Fontaine: In high school [it] would have been pretty much impossible to come out. It was extremely homophobic.
Do you notice significant differences between now and then? Is it better? Worse?
Mr. Hollands: ...I think some things are different and some are not. The existence of GSAs, for instance, is a big thing. [Also] I have to believe that everybody, every student here, knows at least one person who is gay, and I didn't... [And] now there are some role models: celebrities, politicians. Gay people are being portrayed in the media in a positive or neutral way. When I was growing up, not only did I not personally know anyone who was gay, there were no role models for me at all. I don't think there was a single celebrity who was out. Very rarely were gay people depicted in the media, and if they were it was usually as figures of mockery. [Today] I do see high school students who are out, and teachers. On the other hand, bullying still exists. I imagine it's not as pervasive and when it's caught then it's often dealt with. But on the other hand...there's also the added element of cyber bullying. So some things have changed and certainly gotten better, but we still have a long way to go.
Mr. Fontaine: "You have GSA's now, which you did not have in the 80's...[and] people coming out earlier, I mean sometimes even like late elementary school, or middle school...but they're still nit always coming out into positive situations. The homophobia is still there.... this current generation is more embracing, but it still doesn't seem to cut down on the amount of homophobic situations that people have to confront.
Do you feel like you still face prejudice in your daily life today, or are you mostly accepted?
Mr. Hollands: Day to day I don't feel like I experience prejudice. It's partly where I've chosen to live and who I've chosen to associate with that I don't have to confront it. On the other hand, I don't have all the rights that other people have. For instance, I can't get married to my partner. Things like that.
Mr. Fontaine: I'm mostly accepted.
What do you think the next step towards equality is?
Mr. Hollands: Well I'm a big believer in generational change and long-term change, so I don't think society's going to change overnight. But I think...history is going in the right direction. Specifically, I think we need to really address bullying in the schools. and... projects like "It Gets Better" are doing that. I'm a big believer in marriage equality, so I think that's a practical, political next step. And other political things like repealing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".
Mr. Fontaine: Marriage. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". Employment Non-Discrimination Act. Those three.
Is there any advice you'd give to teenagers today who don't feel comfortable with who they are?
Mr. Hollands: I guess I'll echo the "It Gets Better" movement and say that it really does get better, and I can use myself as an example. During high school, I thought I was a bad person because I was gay. I really just thought it was a big secret that I needed to hide. Really only a very few years later, by the time I was 20 years old, it was so much better. I had moved away [and] gone to college where people were very accepting. I had told my parents, and they, after some education and soul searching of their own, ended up being very accepting. So it got better very quickly. Hang in there.
advice. Mr. Fontaine: That you have a support system. That you need to come out, you can't be in the closet. I mean, depending on your situation at home and at school you may have to wait... but you need to come out, otherwise you won't...be living your life.
What is it like being out as a teacher/intern in high school? Do you feel comfortable with other teachers, with students, with parents?
Mr. Hollands: I feel very comfortable at Ingraham, I don't feel like I have to hide who I am with students and teachers. I will say...so this is obviously a career change for me, I've had other careers before this, and.. I always wanted to be a teacher and never did it, and I think one of the reasons I never [became a teacher] when I was younger was... it was a different environment back then, and I was worried about being gay and being a teacher. I was worried that I would experience harassment. I think that's honestly one of the reasons I didn't pursue it. But now I feel like I'm more confident in who I am and the environment has changed enough that I can be honest...and also be a teacher. I'm really happy about that.
Mr. Fontaine: It's fine.
Anything you would like to add?
Mr. Fontaine: I think... it's just crucial for everyone to come out. The more people that come out, the more people have a face in their mind of gay people, someone that they know. It just brings down the wall, the wall of homophobia. We still have to keep fighting this battle against homophobia, whether it's in this school, in this community, in the United States. Whether it's in the world—'cause some countries are killing people who are gay. It's a life...not a lifestyle. You don't choose your sexual orientation, it's who you are, and you need to seize it and embrace it, and be powerful with it.
Mr. Hollands: I'm gay.
Mr. Fontaine: Gay.
What year did you graduate high school in?
Mr. Hollands: 1982.
Mr. Fontaine: 1984.
Where you out in high school?
Mr. Hollands: No, not at all. I knew I had certain feelings, but I didn't self-identify as gay at the time.
Mr. Fontaine: I knew that I was gay by 7th grade... I just kept it hidden all through junior high and high school.
Tell us a little about coming out:
Mr. Hollands: I came out... my freshman year of college. I told my best friend, a woman who lived in the same dorm as me. Then I told a couple of my friends freshman year, and by sophomore year was pretty out. I told my family—my brothers and my parents—the beginning of my junior year of college.
Mr. Fontaine: I came out in college, at UW. I was too scared to come out...in high school, because that would have meant...getting beaten up on a daily basis. But then by my senior year I was ready to go crazy, so I started coming out."
What was the atmosphere in school like surrounding homosexuality?
Mr. Hollands: Well, there were no GSAs. I didn't know a single other person who was gay. It was not...talked about, really. I did experience some...verbal bullying from other students who expected I might be gay. So it was not a very tolerant environment.
Mr. Fontaine: In high school [it] would have been pretty much impossible to come out. It was extremely homophobic.
Do you notice significant differences between now and then? Is it better? Worse?
Mr. Hollands: ...I think some things are different and some are not. The existence of GSAs, for instance, is a big thing. [Also] I have to believe that everybody, every student here, knows at least one person who is gay, and I didn't... [And] now there are some role models: celebrities, politicians. Gay people are being portrayed in the media in a positive or neutral way. When I was growing up, not only did I not personally know anyone who was gay, there were no role models for me at all. I don't think there was a single celebrity who was out. Very rarely were gay people depicted in the media, and if they were it was usually as figures of mockery. [Today] I do see high school students who are out, and teachers. On the other hand, bullying still exists. I imagine it's not as pervasive and when it's caught then it's often dealt with. But on the other hand...there's also the added element of cyber bullying. So some things have changed and certainly gotten better, but we still have a long way to go.
Mr. Fontaine: "You have GSA's now, which you did not have in the 80's...[and] people coming out earlier, I mean sometimes even like late elementary school, or middle school...but they're still nit always coming out into positive situations. The homophobia is still there.... this current generation is more embracing, but it still doesn't seem to cut down on the amount of homophobic situations that people have to confront.
Do you feel like you still face prejudice in your daily life today, or are you mostly accepted?
Mr. Hollands: Day to day I don't feel like I experience prejudice. It's partly where I've chosen to live and who I've chosen to associate with that I don't have to confront it. On the other hand, I don't have all the rights that other people have. For instance, I can't get married to my partner. Things like that.
Mr. Fontaine: I'm mostly accepted.
What do you think the next step towards equality is?
Mr. Hollands: Well I'm a big believer in generational change and long-term change, so I don't think society's going to change overnight. But I think...history is going in the right direction. Specifically, I think we need to really address bullying in the schools. and... projects like "It Gets Better" are doing that. I'm a big believer in marriage equality, so I think that's a practical, political next step. And other political things like repealing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".
Mr. Fontaine: Marriage. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". Employment Non-Discrimination Act. Those three.
Is there any advice you'd give to teenagers today who don't feel comfortable with who they are?
Mr. Hollands: I guess I'll echo the "It Gets Better" movement and say that it really does get better, and I can use myself as an example. During high school, I thought I was a bad person because I was gay. I really just thought it was a big secret that I needed to hide. Really only a very few years later, by the time I was 20 years old, it was so much better. I had moved away [and] gone to college where people were very accepting. I had told my parents, and they, after some education and soul searching of their own, ended up being very accepting. So it got better very quickly. Hang in there.
advice. Mr. Fontaine: That you have a support system. That you need to come out, you can't be in the closet. I mean, depending on your situation at home and at school you may have to wait... but you need to come out, otherwise you won't...be living your life.
What is it like being out as a teacher/intern in high school? Do you feel comfortable with other teachers, with students, with parents?
Mr. Hollands: I feel very comfortable at Ingraham, I don't feel like I have to hide who I am with students and teachers. I will say...so this is obviously a career change for me, I've had other careers before this, and.. I always wanted to be a teacher and never did it, and I think one of the reasons I never [became a teacher] when I was younger was... it was a different environment back then, and I was worried about being gay and being a teacher. I was worried that I would experience harassment. I think that's honestly one of the reasons I didn't pursue it. But now I feel like I'm more confident in who I am and the environment has changed enough that I can be honest...and also be a teacher. I'm really happy about that.
Mr. Fontaine: It's fine.
Anything you would like to add?
Mr. Fontaine: I think... it's just crucial for everyone to come out. The more people that come out, the more people have a face in their mind of gay people, someone that they know. It just brings down the wall, the wall of homophobia. We still have to keep fighting this battle against homophobia, whether it's in this school, in this community, in the United States. Whether it's in the world—'cause some countries are killing people who are gay. It's a life...not a lifestyle. You don't choose your sexual orientation, it's who you are, and you need to seize it and embrace it, and be powerful with it.
